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Guangzhou ( Name of school removed)

 
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scott23



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Guangzhou ( Name of school removed) Reply with quote

This post has been moderated. UJ

I would like to advise anyone coming to Guangzhou, China not to work for (name removed)

The company name has changed in the past so please look out for a lady called (name removed) It is her English name and she uses it to fraudulently sign contracts that are not legitimate, as you will be made to work without a visa when you first arrive. I have many teacher friends who have been conned financially by this company and they have a bad reputation throughout Guangzhou.

They make you work illegally, long hours, the contract is misleading, they do not pay you for holidays when they should, they lie to you and hold your passport so as to stop you from leaving, they do not pay you on time, the Chinese in the contract is not the same as the English, they have changed company names many times as to continue operating illegitimately.

These are to name but a few of the problems that the teachers went through during my time with (name removed)

I repeat. Think wisely before you enter into discussions with this company.

From a very unhappy teacher still living in Guangzhou hence why no email address

Please contact the writer for further details
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HenanMike



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Guangzhou Whatever School Reply with quote

If there is one good thing you can say about schools like this in China (and there are a few), it is that they certainly know how to pick their staff.

They keep your passport? How stupid are you? Can you say EMBASSY?

They break the contract by making you work extra and irregular hours and you continued to work there?

They break the contract by not paying for holidays?

You can't understand the contract, but yet you signed it?

The Chinese contract supersedes the English contract?

The company you contracted with, no longer exists?

The vast majority of schools in China (public or private) abide by their contracts and treat their foreign teachers, more or less, with respect. You have clearly stumbled blindly into the "School from Hell". I truly hope you can extricate yourself from this self-inflicted mess but, in the meantime, you serve as a great example of how NOT to enter the profession.
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Lee Hobbs
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Snail-mail boxes vs E-mail inboxes Reply with quote

HenanMike wrote:
I truly hope you can extricate yourself from this self-inflicted mess.


Yes, and, don't forget the "...still living in Guangzhou hence why no email address..."

Since when are e-mail addresses connected to one's geographical place of residence? Seems to me that if one has access to the internet, as this poster does, they also have access to any of the free online email services (Google mail, hotmail, yahoo mail, etc.)

Maybe a basic lesson in "E-mail 101" should also be standard fare on the current curricula of ESL teaching certs designed for those who want to teach and live abroad.

Lee
_________________

Lee's blog is still available, however, here: www.english-blog.com
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St. George



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Ex Libya

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject: Bad schools Reply with quote

I sympathize with Scott23 and I don't think it is as simple as HenmanMike suggests. I have not been to China but I have read sufficient to suggest that there is a lot of corruption there. However, I do have a lot of experience of working in Arab countries and the companies there, do keep your passport and you don't get it back until you are about to leave the country. You can say EMBASSY 'till you are blue in the face. They do cheat you out of your money and they hold you to ransom, so there is no way you would take them to court. Indeed, it would take years to settle a case in court and by that time you will be long gone. There are provisions, in the contract, to enable you to get out of it but they would find some excuse not to pay you and so you just stick it out or lose a lot of money. I'm talking here about government departments, not two -bit companies.

When you leave a company in Saudi, for instance, you will receive a letter of release (providing your employment has been satisfactory) and without that you cannot get another job in Saudi and so that would be another reason for sticking it out, without complaint.

They have secret police, posing as students. Woe betide you, if you say anything that they don't like. No release letter, no money and on the next flight home.

I thought computer experts could hack into peoples' emails and thereby find their secrets.

St. G


Last edited by St. George on Wed May 14, 2008 1:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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HenanMike



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Saudi and China -- Apples and oranges Reply with quote

I have never taught in Saudi but am led to believe that you do not teach the hoi polloi middle-class as in China, but rather the "anointed ones", all of whom have extensive government connections.

In my experience, the mention of western government embassies raises the fear of God in fly-by-night operations. Of course, China has more than its share of corruption, but it does have a structure that tries to protect foreign experts -- especially now, with the Olympics fast approaching. Guangzhou, a major city and provincial capital, has an office which is responsible for foreign teachers. I doubt it is in the pocket of some two-bit operation.

If the writer of the first entry in this thread had taken even a little time to ask around, talk to former teachers, read the contract, and insist on his rights, he would not be in the mess he now finds himself in.
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DavkarMX



Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Scott23 and his Chinese gig Reply with quote

This is my first visit to the ESL forum and possibly my last. While Scott23 may lack the experience and ESL street smarts of a seasoned "(words escape me)" like Henanmike, I am sure he is neither stupid nor immune to criticism.

I am sure Scott found Mike's comments less than useful and I wondered for a while why Mike felt the need to make them. Then I read his response to St. George and his "apples and oranges" comment and it all became clear.

Mike is not a seasoned "anything." He has reached that level of senility where tact, empathy and subtlety disappear and are replaced by bitterness and vitriol. .
I'm sure Mike has been teaching ESL for many years but it seems he has learned even less during this time than his students have learned from him.

Mike, if you have anything to say to actually help Scott, please say it. I will revisit this forum in a day or so to review your list of helpful suggestions.
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HenanMike



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Davkar, you seem to know a lot about me right down to my level of senility, bitterness quotient, experience level, and ability to teach.

Do I have anything to say which would actually help Scott? Well, "Go home!" springs to mind. My response was not intended to help Scott, it was aimed at readers perhaps contemplating coming to China. My intent was to warn them that a reasonable level of due diligence is required or they may find themselves in Scott's unfortunate position.

If I were as vitriolic as you suggest, I would probably salivate at the idea of you young pups finding yourselves working for some sweat shop in China.
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DavkarMX



Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: The Accidental ESL Teacher Reply with quote

Hi Mike. It seems we share the same desire to have the last word and, much as I hate to admit it, at the end of the day your comments were spot on.

I was empathizing with Scott but, in terms of the "big picture" your comments were of more value.

Whether as a tourist or as an ESL teacher, we must remember that, even though where we happen to be there are embassies, an established legal system (of sorts), a system of basic human rights (sometimes), forums such as these, support from peers etc. - this is all "window dressing."

Some English tourists think civilization equals a supply of Watney's Red Barrel beer or a good cup of tea. Some Americans look for a Big Mac or a Starbucks. Whether they find them or not will only effect their "vacation experience."

In many of those same locations there will be ESL teachers enjoying their cups of tea or coffee. When they get up and go to work this Monday morning, to some of them it will be "almost like" working in a foreign country.

If you are reading this and thinking "almost like" you need to be protected from yourself. Go back to bed, get some sleep and guess what? When (and if) you wake up you WILL be in a foreign country! If you can't wrap your head around that fact, don't go back to bed.

Start packing and go home!!!!

And Mike, if there is Red Barrel where you are, the first round is on me! You might also enjoy a "pint" of Indio, although the locals serve it just a few degrees above freezing. Once it warms up a bit though it's bloody good beer. Where are you?

PS Thanks for calling me a young pup instead of an old dog. I'm still learning new tricks after all.
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deedub



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A salutary and informative site for young pups (and old dogs, for that matter) is the Foreign Teachers' Guide to Living and Teaching English in China which can be found at http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/

Not that useful if you are already in a mess, but very useful if you are thinking of teaching in China, and for avoiding the mess that Scott finds himself in.

Keep us posted, Scott, how you are extricating yourself.
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Joanne Rosen



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Working in Saudi Reply with quote

I've been teaching in Saudi since September. So far, we've been paid on time, treated fairly (although the men are treated a bit more fairly than the women), and have not seen or heard of "secret police" in our classrooms. Shocked

The company has been in business for a long time, although this is only the end of their first 3 years in the education industry. The contract is up for renewal and we are waiting to hear if they are awarded the contract.

Teachers tend to stay here, so they must be doing something right.

Very Happy
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mr.joel



Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Working in Saudi Reply with quote

sorry I'm on the wrong thread, no hijack intended...
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