ESL Jobs - ESL, EFL, TEFL, TESOL Teaching Jobs
  • FREE Weekly ESL Jobs
  • ESL, EFL, TESL, TEFL -- Get weekly updates of the Hottest New Jobs direct to your inbox as well as easily apply to new openings!
  • Enter your Email:

ESL Jobs Forum
"Where New and Seasoned ESL Professionals Come Together To Network . . . Share. Listen. Learn."

 FAQIndex    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups      RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Comparing Business EFL Programs
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> ESL to Business Persons...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: Comparing Business EFL Programs Reply with quote

Thought I would kick up a debate here since there are few around on this topic.

For those out there teaching business EFL...tell us about the programs you're using...

I've been in the position of late to assign programs to various company groups here in Mexico and have been getting some feedback both from teachers and students. Market Leader by Longman is popular with both, and having used it myself, I enjoy teaching through this interactive series.

In Company is another used by an affiliate school here in Mexico City. I'm not a big fan.

Cambridge New International Business English has been roundly booed as being too British, though I like the communicative activities.

Oxford Business English is another I enjoyed though I haven't used it in several years.

Any others we all care to review?
_________________
Life is a verb, not a noun - Now Bloggin' and Working Hard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jacek.frytz



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Poland/USA/UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to say Market Leader is #1 due to exposure and marketing by Longman. It's particularly well done I have to say with good grafics and layout, but actually getting out to date about now.

what do you think about the oxford correspondence black and white book as an actual course book? I couldn't find anything else I could base a whole course on Business correspondence
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen Oxford correspondence. Is it a stand alond book or part of another program?

On writing exercises, for the few business classes I still teach or sub, I tend to work directly with the students' real emails, reports, and faxes. Mexico is aready quite Americanized in this respect so there's not great importance placed on this area of study.
_________________
Life is a verb, not a noun - Now Bloggin' and Working Hard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jacek.frytz



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Poland/USA/UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reposting this. Why it disappeared the first time Guy?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0194572137/026-3426120-0380456

That is the link for the OUP correspondence book. It is very good with a lot of templates and serves as a good reference.

Is OUP established in Mexico? It sounds like Longman has done a good job with penetrating your territory, even though it's british
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It didn't disappear...you and I were posting in the wrong thread. I've corrected the error. Here's what I had written.

OUP? What does it stand for? I'm not familiar with every series out there, but you'll find just about everything in Mexico. As this is one the world's larger ESL market's, publisher's are routinely dropping by for launches.

We recently hosted Jack C Richard's in launching the latest Cambridge New Interchange incarnation. This is probably the most widely used series in EFL classrooms in Latin America, due to good marketing, a good price, and a nicely laid out series.

(Here that Jack? Where's my commission for the plug? Wink
_________________
Life is a verb, not a noun - Now Bloggin' and Working Hard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jacek.frytz



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Poland/USA/UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hej Thanks I know you were a moderator and could help me!

OUP is Oxford University Press, some of their employees call them 'OUP' for short in Europe.

Does any one else know their business books? Some are rather great
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuplungmaster



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My students just hated anything that came from Longman and other companies offering "business" courses. After some thought, I decided that my students were right.

The whole book courses are way too rigid. Apart from Brits, whose idea about business communication is stuck in the 19th century, the whole planet has moved in totally different direction.

Try to make your own courses! Try to examine the business practices in the country you're working in and then sit down and write the short curriculum. You, as teacher, must learn something from your students in order to successfully convey your message. Take the most proficient student from your group, sit him or her down, and then work out the program together.

Negotiate the syllabus; try more interaction before getting stuck in the stereotype called "Longman, Market Leader, and so on..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always a good idea to involve the student/company plan and real world corporate activities into a cass/curriculum. There are a lot of teachers where I am working in the business EFL circuit that have little or no experience at this level of international finance, commerce, or other international industries, so a book like Market Leader gives a good base to start from.

I use it in classes that I sub or start off for a few weeks before handing of to other teachers. I've been annoyed lately with the CD audio being too British for Mexico, so I end up working far more from the company's point of view on topics and use the book more for contextual introduction. I do like the neatly packaged grammar modules...nothing too heavy, except for idioms.
_________________
Life is a verb, not a noun - Now Bloggin' and Working Hard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kuplungmaster



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and use the book more for contextual introduction

that's about it...

I use the idea, then I sub the context with my own material... usually centered around the needs of my students...

...what I hate the most about those books is their uniform approach in style "one size fits all"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...what I hate the most about those books is their uniform approach in style "one size fits all"


Often, yes. I think Market Leader offers a few extra resource packs through their webpage, though I haven't checked them. Something broken down by industry would be appreciated, for teacher unfamiliar with the spcifics of finance, or export, for exampe.
_________________
Life is a verb, not a noun - Now Bloggin' and Working Hard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Keith



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big Market Leader fan, although I think any coursebook should be used as a base, and teachers should be encouraged to bring in extra resources and materials relevant to the students and to the topic.

I agree with Guy though - most teachers when starting out have little or no experience of teaching business English, and it can be a very daunting prospect. So having a course such as Market Leader to follow can build confidence and give new teachers the experience they need. As this confidence grows, they can beign to branch out and explore different materials to integrate into the course.

Keith
_________________
Keith Taylor
www.eslbase.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lexicon



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 153
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Just thought I'd stire up this thread again Reply with quote

I know this is an old thread, but ti's a debate I have often.

I've looked at several companies' offerings, and I think I've come to the conclusion that pretty much all of them aren't worth a crap when it comes to true business training.

Like someone mentioned above, the ones from Oxford are Aweful. They are entirely too British. I say this not to argue for more American English, but mainly because they are absolutely full of usages that are solely British and British alone. They use tons of London slang, idioms that only a certain group has ever heard, and make no effort to give the content an international feel.

But, I have to say, aside from my dislike for those books, I really feel that the only good way to teach ESL in a business environment is to produce your own customized materials. I say this because no matter how they are written, general books will always be just that...general.

What sorts of experiences have you all had? I'd like to know if anyone else is producing their own client/industry-specific materials.

thanks

Andres Ward

Lexicon Business Solutions
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
btownsend



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Business English content Reply with quote

I am interested in the comments here that say some courses are too British. I'm sure that British entrepreneurs are as widely represented in the global market as Australians, Canadians, South Africans, U.S. Americans etc. But perhaps there is a hidden nugget in that comment. When English is used as an international lingua franca it makes sense to strip it to its bare essentials in the interests of maximum intelligibility. Any native-speaker flavour is almost bound to make the language more difficult for some people to understand. Take a word such as 'presently'. South Africans use this to mean 'currently', but in British English it means 'soon'.

One of the reasons so few courses are of any use with business English clients is that they merely regurgitate familiar linguistic patterns in business contexts. What people in international business really need are training in three key areas:
1. Strategies for making themselves understood with whatever English they already have.
2. Strategies for checking meaning to ensure that a message has been properly understood.
3. Awareness of the cultural bias that may be expressed in linguistic form or through other signs.
_________________
Brenda Townsend Hall, Ph.D.
www.esl-school.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lexicon



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 153
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read my post with the lines too British, I was wondering what the comments would be. Let me try to explain my point of view. I think they are in line with yours, meaning that you should strip anything from teaching that is solely of one group's use.

A good example would be the word rowing. This was in a story in one of our course books. Now I, as an American had no clue what it was. I asked another teacher who was Austrailian and his first response was crew (like rowing a boat). He then realized it meant fighting. Another teacher, a brit had no problem with it, but a South African, a German (with fluent English) and two Canadians were clueless. I think that would be an example of a word that should have been chosen more wisely.


Another example was a section on idioms. There were a few that were fairly universal, but most of the ones in the list, only the British teacher had ever even heard. Some of them mentioned things that only someone really familiar with England could even figure out. Those should have been left out I would think.

Now there is some usage that just varies from one place to another. I think that would be a judgement call of the teacher. If your client is likely to be doing business with North Americans, teach them the American terms. If they're more likely to work with Brits, teach them the British usages.

Most of these are fairly harmless, like:

Truck versus Lorry
Movies versus Cinema or movie vs film
Apartment versus flat

Then you have differences in usage like the one you mentioned above (in the US presently would mean now too, but we don't use it much):

Like the slang usage of 'pissed'. In Austrailia it means drunk, in the US/Canada it means angry.

So I would think that mainly, what needs to happen is that all of these books need to be written by people from different areas in consensus. Then they need to be editied to eliminate anything that is not universal. Finally, these books, business or otherwise need to be reviewed by someone other than ESL teachers. They should probably be reviewed by non-native speakers.

But basically, they just need to be reviewed by someone other than the same people who wrote them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something in a book that confused the hell out of me. And really, if these books confuse the native-speaker teachers, imagine how our students must feel!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
esigus



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone seen any printed/web material with sets of word/term variations from the different countries/regions?

I've had & heard this debate since my first day of TEFL cert. class. It's always interesting. I just wonder why someone doesn't write the "bare-bones-basic" book, then add sub-sections at the end of each section or one in the rear of the book, that go(es) over lists of terms that vary from region to region. This way, emphasis can be put on whichever region the client 's business is most conducted, and the instructor can use the same materials for the next client who does business with a different region. There are also some very large companies (in China, for instance) that do business with many regions & their personnel might speak with someone from Cork one day & Kansas City the next.

Reality is that many businesspersons use regional slang/idioms quite often. Of course it depends on the business, but most of the time it's two average "guys" on the street trying to communicate, not some well-to-do, highly formal, next-to-royalty-type persons. So it is important, IMHO, to be able to understand the difference between "pissed" & "pissed," "elevator" & "lift," etc.

The most important (IMHO) thing is that our clients are able to understand as well as be understood. No business person wants to sit in some meeting with a blank look of confusion on his/her face or make a remark & have his/her client stare blankly back, or, worse yet, snicker at them.

If no one has seen such materials, maybe it's the "opportunity of a lifetime" to make a few bucks & compile some.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> ESL to Business Persons... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP


Contact Us | About Us | ESL Jobs Newsletter | ESL Lesson Plan | ESL Online